Welcome to the Golden Age of Orthodontics with Dr. Leon Klempner and co-host Amy Epstein. In this episode, we dive into a crucial yet often overlooked issue in dental and orthodontic practices—embezzlement. Today’s guest is David Harris, CEO of Prosperident, the world’s largest firm investigating financial crimes committed against dentists, who shares eye-opening statistics on how pervasive embezzlement is in orthodontic practices. David sheds light on the behaviors of those who steal, the fine line between delegation and abdication, and the essential steps your HR department must take to protect your practice, including rigorous pre-employment screening. The key takeaway? More orthodontists will be embezzled than won't, making vigilance and proactive measures essential to safeguarding your business. Don’t miss out on this information-packed episode.
IN THIS EPISODE:
(2:39) Amy introduces David Harris, CEO of Prosperident, a firm expert in addressing dental practice embezzlement
(4:12) David explains the pervasiveness of the embezzlement problem and outlines statistics of practices who have experienced embezzlement
(12:29) David discusses the difference between delegation and abdication and the behaviors of people who steal
(19:31) Pre Employment screening is a must for hiring, and David shares other practices that your H.R. Department must put into place
(24:23) Discussion of a proximity tag on your computer and what is the next step if someone is stealing from your practice
KEY TAKEAWAYS:
More Orthodontists will be embezzled than won’t.
Practitioners don’t have the time to monitor the bookkeeping aspect of their business, while the thief has all the time in the world to devise a plan to steal.
An employee will gain your trust before they steal from you.
EPISODE TRANSCRIPT
What follows is an AI-generated transcript. The transcript may contain errors and is not a substitute for watching the video.
Golden Age of Orthodontics - Ep 63 - David Harris CFE, CPA, Forensic CPA
(00:00:00) Dr. Leon Klempner: Have you ever heard stories about one of your fellow orthodontists being embezzled by a member of their staff, sometimes losing tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars? Do you believe that it could never happen to you? Well, this podcast is for you. Our Golden Age of Orthodontics podcast sponsors make it possible for us to bring you new episodes.
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(00:00:53) Narrator: The future of orthodontics is evolving and changing every day, but although the way to achieve practice growth has (00:01:00) changed, there's never been a better time to be an orthodontist.
Let's get into the minds of industry leaders, forward thinking orthodontists and technology insiders to learn how they see the future of the orthodontic special. How will digital orthodontics, artificial intelligence, clear aligner therapy, remote monitoring, in house printing, and other innovations change the way you practice?
Join your host, Dr. Leon Klempner and Amy Epstein each month, as they bring you insights, tips, and guest interviews focused on helping you capitalize on the opportunities for practice growth. And now welcome to the golden age of orthodontics with the co founders of people and practice, Dr. Leon Klempner and Amy Epstein.
(00:01:43) Dr. Leon Klempner: Welcome to the Golden Age of Orthodontics. I'm Leon Klemtner, retired board certified orthodontist, director of orthodontics at Mount Sinai Hospital, part time faculty at Harvard, and CEO of People in Practice. Practiced 38 years before exiting and taking this (00:02:00) joyous adventure, founding People in Practice 13 years ago with my daughter, partner, and co host Amy Epstein.
Hi, Amy. How you doing?
(00:02:09) Amy Epstein: I'm doing well. I'm glad that you feel this is joyous. I find it joyous, but it's nice to know that you do or still do. Um, I'm Amy Epstein. I have an MBA in marketing and 20 years of public relations experience working with large brands and small local companies. Companies as well.
And I was happy to take all that information and learning and apply it to the orthodontic industry. We co founded this business almost 15 years ago, um, and have clients all over the country and in Canada. Today, we are thrilled to have as our podcast guest, David Harris. He is the CEO of Prosperident. If you've not heard about Prosperident, they're the experts in addressing dental practice embezzlement.
Under David's leadership, Prosperident has expanded over the past three decades to become a team of highly specialized (00:03:00) fraud investigators, forensic accountants, and IT specialists. David is a sought after speaker and he's an accomplished author too. His new book, healers versus stealers, how to outsmart the thief in your dental practice is now available on Amazon.
David's professional qualifications include certified fraud examiner, forensic CPA, chartered professional accountant, certified in financial forensics, and licensed private investigator. This guy's no joke. We know you're going to enjoy talking with him today. Welcome David to the show.
(00:03:34) David Harris CFE, CPA, Forensic CPA: Thank you, Amy and Leon.
It's great to be with you both. Um, and I have one of those MBAs like you do as well, Amy, but I guess that is not my profile. Somehow that doesn't
(00:03:43) Amy Epstein: surprise me either, and I wouldn't be surprised if you're also an orthodontist. So, uh, you're, you've got it all. Oh, David, by the way, in case our listeners don't know, is also a card carrying member of Mensa, which neither of the two of us can claim for sure.
So, (00:04:00) uh, David is you're clearly very accomplished and very experienced. And you're here to talk about a topic that we know our listeners are going to be extremely interested in.
(00:04:10) David Harris CFE, CPA, Forensic CPA: Absolutely. And to Leon's point from the introduction, the majority of orthodontists in the audience will be embezzled sooner or later.
Let's just say that upfront. This is not a problem that strikes a small component of your profession. More orthodontists will be embezzled than won't.
(00:04:29) Dr. Leon Klempner: So the David, let's stay on that just for a second, because it's, you know, when I was in practice, I, you know, every once in a while I hear about somebody getting embezzled, but it was rare and it was infrequent.
So it led me to believe that, you know, it doesn't really happen that often. So, you know, do you have any statistics or can you give us an idea of really what the prevalence of embeddlement is in the orthodontic community?
(00:04:57) David Harris CFE, CPA, Forensic CPA: Absolutely, I can. Um, and I'll (00:05:00) start, Leon, by saying that for a long time, this was orthodontics and dentistry's dirty little secret.
Um, and the, the instinct of people who were embezzled was to sweep what happened under the nearest carpet and just kind of act like it didn't have. And there was a huge amount of what I'm going to broadly call under reporting for a long time. One of the things that my company's tried to do, and we're about to celebrate our 35th anniversary in two weeks.
And I was kind of reflecting the other day on the things that we've done. And one of the things that gave me the most pride was that we've taken this conversation mainstream. We've made it so that esteemed folks like you will have somebody like me on your podcast to tell the story. And I think 30 years ago, that probably wouldn't have happened.
Um, in terms of statistics, there has not been a whole lot of orthodontic specific studies on this topic. The numbers I'm going to give you apply to all of dentistry, but, um, I think for reasons I'll mention in a (00:06:00) minute, um, that orthodontists are at least as vulnerable as everybody else. So the numbers come from a survey that the American Metal Association did in 2019, and they asked 19, 000 of their members, a very simple question.
Have you been stolen? And we'll start with the good news, which is that 53 percent said, as far as I know, I haven't because absolute answers are a little bit rare when you're, when you're asking people about embezzlement. So the other 47 percent said, yes, I've been stolen. And then the ADA asked that 47%, another question, how many times, and now it gets a little bit interesting.
So 26 percent of the respondents, in other words, about half those who said, yes, I've been stolen from, said once, as far as I know, 8 percent had been stolen from twice. Sorry, 11 percent had been stolen from twice, 2 percent were what I call the triple (00:07:00) dippers, and the one that really makes me scratch my head is that 8 percent of respondents said they had been stolen from at least four times.
So if you just do a little histogram exercise and you take 26 percent times 1 and 11 percent times 2 and 2 percent times 3 and 8 percent times 4, let's assume, you end up with that there have already been 92 embezzlements in a room of 100 dentists. Um, now there are some. Unknowns in all this, first of all, we don't know how many of the 53 percent who said I haven't been stolen from actually had, and either didn't realize it, or maybe for their own reasons, chose not to tell the ADA about that.
And of course, we don't know how many of this cohort will get stolen from either for the 1st time or again, and the rest of their careers. So the best number I can give you is that if it. When we're talking about the dental population as a whole, (00:08:00) there's probably around a 70 percent chance that you'll get hit at some point.
Um, that's the industry as a whole. Let's narrow the focus to orthodontics. And as I say, it hasn't really been studied. Um, seems like a good project for the AAO to pick up, but, but they haven't run with it yet. Um, here's what I can tell you though, orthodontists make up about 6 percent of the dental population as a whole.
Um, they actually make up about 10 percent of our client base. Which suggests to me that compared to the rest of dentistry, the victimization of orthodontists is a little more common.
And, um, you can point to some factors probably. Um, one thing is that, you know, this is kind of a simple thing, but it feeds right into what embezzlers want to do. The amount of money that most patients pay an orthodontist each month is pretty predictable. I mean, it's known in advance as (00:09:00) opposed to When I'm leaving my general dental office, and I'm never quite sure until I'm standing at the front desk what today would have cost me.
So there's an amount of predictability. There's also what I would broadly call hyperdelegation that happens in orthodontics. Um, you know, and the relationship that an orthodontist has with Uh, the flow of money in their practice is just a little bit different than, than what a typical general dentist might have, for example,
(00:09:28) Amy Epstein: maybe it's because of that predictability, it might be a function of that predictability that they can step back a little bit, or
(00:09:35) David Harris CFE, CPA, Forensic CPA: I think that's part of it, Amy, and there's probably a lot more, but, you know, if this were baseball, or if an honest are playing third base.
Um, you know, it's what they call the hot corner.
(00:09:44) Amy Epstein: So David, your clients come to you to help with this issue of embezzlement. How do you get them to open up about it when sometimes it can be embarrassing as you talked about a little bit earlier?
(00:09:57) David Harris CFE, CPA, Forensic CPA: I think for a long time, people have felt a little bit (00:10:00) of shame if they were embezzled from, um, you know, that they, they somehow failed.
And I think dentistry exists in a culture of perfection, where the expectation of a general dentist or, or an orthodontist is that they'd be perfect in terms of their clinical output and also how they run their practices. And, and being embezzled is a, is a very visible reminder that at least at this moment, you weren't perfect.
What I tell. A lot of victims is, well, let's understand that the table was tilted against you here. Um, you have maybe 20 minutes or a half hour a day mentally to devote to running your practice. Somebody who's stealing from you has 24 hours to think about how to separate you from your money. And even if there's a difference in intellect and a difference in education, um, Their motivation and their ability to put time into this problem and (00:11:00) even maybe experiment little transactions to see what happens.
Far exceeds the ability of a doctor to oversee what's happened. So I just tell them it's, it's an unequal battle and you were destined to lose. And let's rather than, than feel bad about that, let's focus on what you do now and how you make it so that this person doesn't victimize any of your peers in the future.
(00:11:28) Dr. Leon Klempner: Yeah. So, you know, you mentioned David that, you know, orthodontists, orthodontists in general are, are delegate a lot. And, and we do, and, you know, I remember when I was in practice, I'd be in the back in the clinical area and I'd have my hands full, you know, I'd be looking at the schedule, I, you know, have clinical decisions to make, um, you know, I, I relied on my.
front desk people, or the people that would, would be answering the phone, taking care of the (00:12:00) finances, things like that, to, to handle what they handle. I didn't, I couldn't be in both places at the same time, but, um, what, what can I do or what, what are there ways that I can identify or are there indicators?
That I could look out for in the characteristics of our staff members that might alert me that maybe something was going on that shouldn't be going on.
(00:12:29) David Harris CFE, CPA, Forensic CPA: Absolutely. Thieves behave in certain predictable ways. But before I get into that, I want to pick up on the first part of what you said. What I tell orthodontists is if you are a practice owner, that comes with certain responsibilities.
And if you don't want those responsibilities, that's fine, but find a situation where you're then not a practice on, you know, uh, put, put on a uniform and, and, and serve for your country or, uh, (00:13:00) work for an OSO or a DSO, or find a place where the burdens of ownership don't fall on you because you can't have it both ways.
Or if you want to be a practice owner, then you have to commit some amount of time and some amount of mental energy. To making sure that's what's supposed to happen did help. And one of the truisms of human nature is if people are unsupervised, some percentage of them will act out. And I talk a lot, Leon, to orthodontists about the difference between delegation and abdication.
Delegation meaning I'm giving you a job to do, but I'm going to hold you accountable and I'm going to enforce that accountability and abdication being. I don't ever want to hear about this again. And I, I think a lot of your peers struggle with that distinction or aren't sure when, um, one of them is appropriate over the other.
The other thing I'll mention though about the burden of ownership responsibility is that it too can be (00:14:00) offloaded. Um, not delegated, which means giving, giving things to your staff, but there are plenty of people who will help you make sure that the finances of your practice are proper. Um, of course it's something we do, um, but you know, there are dental bookkeepers, there are CPA firms, there are other people who can, who can make sure that the math lines up.
Uh, so it isn't necessarily something that has to happen personally. What, what does have to happen is the recognition by the orthodontist that certain things have to happen and that I can't, you know, I can't simply walk away from my front desk and just hope for the best. Now, to the part of your question about behavior, there's a lot of recognizable behavior by people who are stealing.
For example, a lot of thieves are reluctant to take a vacation because A lot of stealing relies on them being there (00:15:00) to perpetuate what's happened and to prevent it from coming to the attention of the orthodontist. And if I'm stealing from you and I go on vacation for two weeks, I have suddenly lost control over how the information moves through the practice.
Now all of a sudden I become vulnerable and I tell a story a lot about a big embezzlement that I worked on early in my career. It was a two doctor period on his practice and it was about 600, 000, which was really big money in the early nineties. It wouldn't be quite as remarkable now. Um, and it all came unglued because the office manager broke her leg skiing one weekend.
And Monday morning, for the first time, anybody could remember she wasn't in the practice. And it only took until about 11 a. m. for one of the receptionists to come into the senior periodontist's operatory and pull him out and say, there's something weird going on here because I've gotten three very strange phone calls from patients this morning.
So not taking vacation is, (00:16:00) is, would be an example of a behavioral indicator. Thieves tend to be pretty territorial, you know, possessive about their duties. They don't want to, Delegate any part of what they're doing or cross training anybody, you know, and they can be run off their feet, but they're still holding it all really tight.
Um, other things you will see, um, the, the word that can make a thief really nervous is consult. In other words, thieves have a pretty established routine for fooling their doctor, but when the doctor says, you know, I've got great news, I'm going to bring in a terrific orthodontic consultant and, um, they're going to help us solve some problems that we haven't been solving.
The orthodontic embezzler's heart just skips about three beats, because here's somebody who's not beholden to them in the same way that their doctor is, and who thinks about orthodontics A business first and a healing art second, you know, that's a, that's a danger. (00:17:00) Um, some other things you'll see, well, one, this is very simple.
Um, a lot of thieves like to be alone when they steal, so they will work their schedule so that they have some alone time in the practice, you know, and maybe they get their half an hour before everybody else, or they just kind of let everybody else leave and hang around for a while, or they quietly slip into the practice on a Saturday to quote, catch up on things.
Um, another thing that you'll see is that, um, they will do what are called conspicuous displays of honesty. So honest people don't really have to highlight that they're being honest because they just do it all day. Um, when somebody makes a point of telling you or wanting to demonstrate to you how honest they are, that's generally a warning sign.
So those are, those are some behavioral examples. There are a lot more, but. Um, sooner or later, I have to let you (00:18:00) ask another question.
(00:18:01) Dr. Leon Klempner: Well, I tell you, let me follow up for a second because what it sounds like to me is the person that I trust the most that's been with me the longest might be the one that is most likely to be stealing from me rather than somebody new that that just came into the office.
Is that, is that true? 100 percent true.
(00:18:21) David Harris CFE, CPA, Forensic CPA: Uh, trust is a prerequisite for stealing. If you don't trust me, it's fairly hard for me to steal and thieves will worm their way into your life. You know, this will be the person who will run your personal errands on their lunch hour or babysit your kids. Um, you know, or host it for you when you go on vacation, I mean, they will, they will do the things to make it so that you think I would be in so much trouble if this person ever left, like if, as soon as they can engender that, that feeling in you, they're home free.(00:19:00)
(00:19:00) Amy Epstein: Yeah. Wow. I mean, so related, one related question, one. Semi related questions. So the first one is, so then are there things that doctors can do in the, in the hiring process, perhaps, like if we look at it from an HR perspective, are there, are there guardrails or, or precautions that they can take to prevent hiring someone in the first place that might have an inclination toward these types of things?
(00:19:31) David Harris CFE, CPA, Forensic CPA: That is the best fix ever. And to be clear, every thief has their first time. So. Most of the embezzler we catch haven't stolen somewhere yet, and this is the first time. But after that, they, they get recycled and they, they turn in serial embezzler who have done it before. Um, they are enabled because most orthodontists do a terrible job of pre-employment screening.
I mean, uh, (00:20:00) absolutely abysmal. Um, some basics, criminal record checks. Um, 70 million Americans, which equates to one in four adults has a criminal record. And yet the majority of ortho practices don't check that very basic fact. Um, the other one that gets skipped a whole lot is speaking with former employers and an employee with baggage will come up with all kinds of reasons why that shouldn't happen, or they will, um, give you phone numbers to call for former employers, but they're not actually former employers.
It's their uncle on a disposable cell phone who. Claims to be the former employer. So a couple of rules. First of all, we should have a practice of talking to everybody. This person's worked for, for at least the past five years, that should be a, an ironclad rule. And secondly, do not phone any phone number given to you by an applicant.
So if somebody says that they work for Dr. Mark Smith in Peoria, Illinois, (00:21:00) um, Google's really cheap to use. Go online. Find Dr. Smith's office, call the number on the internet, and ask for Dr. Smith, and then you know you've got the right person. Um, other things, one thing that absolutely amazes me is that the norm in dentistry is not to drug test out.
And I really have no idea why. I can't get a job with FedEx delivering all the junk people buy on Amazon without a drug test. And yet I can come into your practice and hold sharp instruments and cut wires, uh, do all kinds of things. And nobody has any idea if I'm hired. Um, so yes, pre employment screening is a, is a great way to stop some of the problems, not all of them, but, um, yeah, it's easy to dodge a bullet if you, if you find somebody's baggage before they get a job.
(00:21:55) Amy Epstein: That makes total sense. guardrails with (00:22:00) regard to technology. Okay. Are there, are there pieces of technology that you can put in place that would raise flags or help prevent some of this from happening?
(00:22:09) David Harris CFE, CPA, Forensic CPA: Possibly. A question I get asked a lot is cameras and the basic problem with cameras is that this, if your office is open 32 hours a week and you need two cameras to cover the front desk, you're then shooting 64 hours of front desk video every week.
And the question they ask is, when are you going to watch it? Um, and they kind of look at me and say, Oh yeah, I didn't think of that. Cameras are great, Amy, for when the specific time of an event can be pinpointed. You know, for example, I'm a big fan of, of operatory cameras, because if any patient ever claims that anything on, you know, improper happened in an operatory, we can see what time that patient was in and go and find the video.(00:23:00)
Um, however. Embezzlement doesn't work that way. I mean, it could, it could happen anytime when the practice is open or as we discussed a few minutes ago when it's not. Um, so that, that technology won't necessarily help us, um, within practice management software, you know, every ortho practice management software comes out of the box with a fair number of safeguards and then they get turned off.
And for example, um, you know, there's a concept in practice management software called administrator rights and somebody who has administrator rights can do anything in this off. Um, we go into a lot of offices and we see 4 staff who have admin rights and that shouldn't be. In fact, likely, it should probably be the doctor and maybe at most 1 other person.
Who have admin rights, um, you know, the other, (00:24:00) the other problem with that is assuming the doctor has administrative rights, they have a, they have a private workspace, they have a computer in there, they're logged in, and then they walk away to go see a patient or whatever, and they leave their logged in admin rights computer, um, available for somebody and solutions could include, uh, one, one thing I use is a proximity tag.
So on my, on my key ring. I have a, uh, a little device and when I get more than 8 feet away from my computer, it locks my computer so I don't even have to think about it. If I go to the restroom, you know, by the time I, by the time I hit the door of my office, I'm logged out. Um, and then when I, when I come back, it logs me back in.
So, you know, it takes away the sort of repetitive keystrokes that. Um, you'd otherwise have to do, um, the only thing that I tell doctors is you actually need 2 user accounts in your practice management software. (00:25:00) You need an operator level account. That's kind of the same as what a receptionist would have.
And then you have an admin account and you don't log in in your admin account unless you need it. For something you stay logged in as a, as, as an operator all day. And then if you do walk away from your terminal and you do forget to log out and somebody jumps on your, on your terminal, they can't do anything more than they can do on their own.
So it's, it's not so much specific technology as smart use of what's already there. That will protect people.
(00:25:34) Dr. Leon Klempner: You know, David, um, 1 of the things that I did do in practice is I'd always get the, you know, the day report at the end out of my practice management system. And, you know, I would kind of look it over.
And 1 of the things that I always looked at would be the adjustments. I would just look at. That I would just focus on that. And every once in a while, I would like question something, you know, just to kind of (00:26:00) let everybody know that, you know, I was looking at this and it wasn't just a passing by me, but let's say, you know, one of our listeners.
Uh, do you find that someone in their practice is embezzling from them? Uh, what's the next step? Do they confront him? Do they call the police? What, what do they, what, what would you advise them to do? What I would
(00:26:27) David Harris CFE, CPA, Forensic CPA: advise them to do with a little bit of self interest is call me. Um, calling the police is pointless.
They can't solve this crime. They just can't. They need somebody to paint a picture for them. And at that point, they'll make sure the law gets applied. But sometimes in Orthodontist, they'll go into the police station with what I call the shoebox and it's the printout of all the reports from their practice management software.
And they. Stick it on the detective's desk and they point to it and they say it's all in there and the detective looks at it and says, you know, I, I (00:27:00) have no background in this whatsoever. What I know about dentistry is from my, my semiannual union funded visit to my own dentist. And furthermore, I don't have the 100 to 200 hours that it's going to take probably to.
Figure this out. So they, they just can't, um, confronting a staff member is not a really good idea until not only do you know what happened, but you're, you're, you're ready to ask them the right questions. Um, so we, we encourage when somebody is suspicious, which probably is going to happen a little bit earlier than when it's confirmed, to call us and we'll walk them through the next steps.
And 1 thing that I'll mention is that when we do investigations, we can do them in secret. In other words, the staff can be working in the practice and have no idea that we're taking a look. And that means that if the doctor is wrong, which happens sometimes. They haven't sort of crossed a line with that staff member that they, they, they can't get back over, (00:28:00) um, to what you said about, um, looking at your day and report.
I'd like to make a couple of comments because that to me is a, is a really good topic. First of all, flummoxed that you did that because I know. Um, a fair number of doctors who don't go to that step. A couple of ways it could have been improved on. The first thing I would suggest to somebody who is still practicing who said that to me was, okay, the first thing I want you to do is print your own reports.
As soon as you allow somebody else to hand you a report, you have given up control over the parameters used to construct that report, and selective reporting becomes a very real possibility. In other words, what they're handing you doesn't tell the whole story. When you print the report yourself, it does.
Um, the second thing is, uh, you mentioned that, you know, if I had a question about something, I would ask a staff member. And one of the things that we (00:29:00) instill and, and show doctors how to do is to go back to source documents. In other words, instead of, instead of asking a staff member, let's go find, The paperwork, be it physical paper, electronic paper behind this, and then, uh, resolve that to what you're seeing in the software, because when you ask somebody who knows something more than you do about a specific question, you know, their, their answer isn't necessarily able to be, to be really evaluated by you.
The third thing that we do. Is we teach doctors something called articulation and at this moment, Leon's going to say, wait a minute, you young pop, I, I have forgotten more about articulation than you'll ever know. And, um, in, in the sense of the mandible and the maxilla, it's a 100 percent correct. Um, I'm, I'm very deliberately taking that word out of your lexicon.
What articulation means is this. If your practice was open 16 days this month. (00:30:00) And in your left hand, Leon, you have 16 of those day end reports that you reviewed. And in your right hand, you have a summary report for the whole month from your software. Um, what we should be able to do to the penny is add up for the 16 reports, the total for fees, adjustments, and payments.
And they should be exactly. The same as for the month summary report. In other words, the daily reports articulate to the monthly report. If they don't, what happens? And the answer is, somebody came in after hours and did some stuff they didn't want you to see. In other words, articulation is the way of enforcing that those Daily reports that you have seen told the whole story.
So if, if you wanted to make it a little bit more airtight, those, those would be the three things I would do. (00:31:00)
(00:31:00) Amy Epstein: Well, that is very concrete and very helpful. Thank you. I mean, it's nice to, uh, we're going to close up the podcast, but it's nice to be able to take some very solid takeaways away from the podcast, the implementable.
Concepts that will, will improve a practice and operate its operations. And I think that, uh, our listeners will be listening closely to what you have, uh, told us today. And no one wants to think that they are being, uh, taken advantage of, especially by someone they trust. Um, but it happens and it doesn't mean, I guess, that we have to be, um, Suspicious of everybody we meet, but when it comes to the practice itself, taking a really solid look at everyone and everything is the responsibility of the owner.
So you've been very helpful today. If our listeners want to get in touch with you to learn more, uh, how do they do that?
(00:31:54) David Harris CFE, CPA, Forensic CPA: Not in a couple of ways, Amy, they can call our toll free number, which is 888 398 2327, (00:32:00) so 888 398 2327. 398 2327, or they can go on our website, which is www. prosperident. com. And there's a contact us page there and they can fill in a quick form and somebody will be back to them fairly quickly.
(00:32:19) Amy Epstein: Wonderful. Well, we want to thank you for being here today. Again, really appreciate your time. Um, we hope to have you back again.
(00:32:27) David Harris CFE, CPA, Forensic CPA: Thank you. Same up to. Thank you both.
(00:32:31) Amy Epstein: This episode of the Golden Age is powered by dental monitoring and Lightforce, two technologies that help practices differentiate from their competitors by providing a better patient experience and enabling practice efficiencies with fewer appointments and speeding up treatment.
Learn more about both of these technologies and the companies. On our partner page of our website at pplpractice. com, you can subscribe or download other episodes of the golden age of orthodontics on Apple (00:33:00) podcasts, Spotify, SoundCloud, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts. And if you enjoyed it, we'd appreciate you telling a colleague for more information about people in practice.
You can sign up for our. Free marketing newsletter for more information about people in practice. Visit our website at pplpractice. com.
(00:33:19) Dr. Leon Klempner: Thank you for watching and listening. I know today's topic, uh, about embezzlement had nothing to do with marketing, but we are a marketing company. And if you have any marketing questions, shoot me an email at Leon at pplpractice.
com. Uh, look at our, our, um, Partner page for special deals and remember for forward thinking orthodontists, there has never been a better time to be an orthodontist. We are in the golden age. Take care and I'll see you next time.
(00:33:53) Narrator: Thank you for tuning in to the Golden Age of Orthodontics. Subscribe now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or visit our (00:34:00) website at thegoldenageoforthodontics. com for direct links to both the audio and video versions of this episode.
Mhm.
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